Holley Dominator Questions

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digginfool
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Holley Dominator Questions

Postby digginfool » Fri Oct 20, 2017 1:48 pm

I've been kicking around the idea of replacing the MEFI-6 ECM on my engine with the Holley Dominator system. It plugs in to all of the stock GM sensors as well as injectors and throttle by wire. Seems pretty much plug and play in that respect but you have to have a starting point. I've been playing around with a twin turbo LS base tune in the Dominator software and changed the parameters to match my engine as well as the AFRs I'm looking for, acceleration enrichment and ignition advance. The best parts are that the system utilizes twin wide-band O2 sensors, rather than simple narrowband, and 'learns' as it goes; that is, it smooths out the fuel and spark curves to optimize performance, based upon your original parameter inputs. Primary reason I'm thinking of going this route is the fact that there are extremely few people in the country doing MEFI-6 tunes plus the Dominator system seems so much more flexible.

So, here are my questions. First, the harness that comes with the system, is it complete or do you still have to create your own wiring harnesses to integrate the rest of the systems on the boat? Second, how quickly did the system adjust from the base tune and how flexible is it? Finally, I was talking to a guy this past weekend that has the Dominator installed by the engine supplier. After running the engine approximately 10 hours and fine tuning over the Internet, the supplier told him to unplug the wide-bands and run the engine open loop. Why would you want to do that? Wouldn't you want the ECM to continuously monitor the AFRs? That just doesn't seem to make sense. The fact that the Dominator is so powerful and uses wide-bands is what pushed me that direction, especially since the person tuning my MEFI-6 wants to do the final tune and run it open loop (that makes more sense to me with narrowband O2 sensors). Much like CMB said in my other thread, running open loop with EFI, you might as well run a carb.
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CarMotorBarge
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Re: Holley Dominator Questions

Postby CarMotorBarge » Sun Oct 22, 2017 7:20 am

Here are a couple of comments:

1. Get the Holley HP and not the Dominator. The Dominator is the HP with transmission control added. You don't need that on an airboat. Also the HP is cheaper.

2. The Holley system does NOT learn the timing. You have to enter all of the timing data into the 2 dimensional table that is indexed by load and rpm. This is the hardest part of setting up the system. The system will temporarily retard the timing if you have the knock sensors activated and knock is detected.

3. The Holley system will tune the fuel table using the target AFR settings that you set and the O2 sensor. The HP system comes with 1 O2 sensor. You can buy a second for $200 more. How fast the system tunes depend on how you have set the sensitivity and adjustability of the system. If the sensitivity is set high, the system will get a decent tune within a second at a specific rpm. There are videos online showing how fast the Holley system tunes on a dyno.

4. As for running open loop, my recommendation is no. The only way that closed loop will harm the engine is if the O2 sensor goes bad and gives an incorrect reading to the Holley system. You can work around this by decreasing the sensitivity and adjustability of the system after the system is tuned. Basically if the O2 sensor goes bad, the system can only adjust the AFR a small amount. I would also recommend looking into getting the Holley digital displays for reading the sensor values that the Holley system sees. These displays show RPM, AFR, etc. So you can watch for problems and catch them early. You can also adjust them while on the boat without needing a laptop.

Also referring to your question about other engine systems, what specific engine systems?
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Re: Holley Dominator Questions

Postby Deano » Sun Oct 22, 2017 9:36 am

CMB, you are to be commended for supplying such understandable and insightful answers to the question(s) at hand. :salute:

I have to say that reading your post, made me smile and fondly remember when Mike Felber used to post here on a regular basis.
His answers to most questions always contained just enough information to answer the question without creating more confusion, were factual, unbiased, and were generally a pleasure to read because a man would learn something by doing so without having to make a major attempt.

In those regards, your post read much like one of his.
Thanks for sharing your knowledge and helping us to expand ours. :thumbleft:
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but it is not the path to knowledge; it has no place in the endeavor of science."
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Re: Holley Dominator Questions

Postby CarMotorBarge » Sun Oct 22, 2017 7:01 pm

Thanks Deano, but I think that I have to take a back seat to you on the quality of posts. Your posts are always extremely well written, insightful, and helpful. :salute: I enjoy reading your posts.
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Re: Holley Dominator Questions

Postby ladyblackwater » Mon Oct 23, 2017 12:58 am

20170711_142629.jpg
Diggin Carmotorbarge is talking about that same setup as what I have I have the Holley HP and also the Holley digital dash.
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Re: Holley Dominator Questions

Postby One Eyed Gator » Mon Oct 23, 2017 9:47 am

There are a few more difference than just the transmission Holley has a small summary than list all the differences. Mostly things the average guy would not need though.

For those who want to run a stock truck motor Terminator has the correct injector connector while the HP has LS1 style EV6 connector.

Ladyblackwater how long have you have the display? wondering about water resistance?

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Re: Holley Dominator Questions

Postby digginfool » Mon Oct 23, 2017 11:33 am

Two reasons why I need to use the Dominator. First and foremost, I have a 'drive by wire' throttle body. HP doesn't support. Second, the Dominator supports dual wide-bands. The HP does not. The Dominator will adjust so that both banks are firing within the AFR range set in the fuel map. CMB, as far as other 'engine systems' perhaps poor choice of words. Basically, what I was asking about is fuel pump control, gauges, etc. Are there tails off the harness for these items or do you have to create a harness for that purpose and run it to the pinouts? LBW, does that display work only in landscape or can you orient it for portrait? My dash isn't wide enough so I would have to mount it vertically if I bought it. Also, as One Eyed asked, what about water resistance?
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Re: Holley Dominator Questions

Postby SWAMPHUNTER45 » Mon Oct 23, 2017 12:27 pm

Just curious do any of the digital dash features interface with Garmin yet to have the navigation and engine management run off one screen ?

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Re: Holley Dominator Questions

Postby KC5AKB » Mon Oct 23, 2017 12:39 pm

That's a good question about the garmin nema stuff.
I will have to keep a eye on this threa
I might learn about something about the Holly System.

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Re: Holley Dominator Questions

Postby One Eyed Gator » Mon Oct 23, 2017 1:09 pm

When we used the terminator system on a buddies boat we had to add the senders and hook up oil, Water temp (classic gauges makes a 12mm coolant sensor that will screw in the back of the passenger side head) .

No wires off the ECM provided for these gauges.

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Re: Holley Dominator Questions

Postby ladyblackwater » Mon Oct 23, 2017 4:02 pm

One Eyed Gator and Diggin the digital dash is water proof. I have almost 80 hours on the dash as of now. I will say I love the dash but I haven't figured out all the functions of It yet. I really like how I shows me my AFR, TPS and IAC right on the screen. The nice thing is you can set It up how ever you like and you can also save multiple tunes to the dash so you can go back and forth. It has an all aluminum housing with an o-ring seal. I talked to the Tech guy at Holley before I bought it and he said as long as I don't take it diving it will be perfect. I told him if the dash goes diving it would be the least of my worries. I've been riding many of time in the pouring rain and haven't had a problem yet. I do cover it when ever I leave my boat outside just to be safe. The sun is more my worry than the rain. Diggin to answer your questions the wiring harnesses comes with all water proof plug in connectors. The fuel pump is run off a pre-wired in relay. If the wire isn't long enough to make it to your fuel pump then you just add the next size wire up to it. Mine is 16 gauge so I had to add about 2' of 14 gauge to make it to my pump. When you turn the key on the pump will run for 10 seconds and shut off if you don't start the motor.The relay can be bought at any auto parts store for about 7 bucks if it ever goes bad on you. It was a very simple system to install. I can bring my boat by one day if you want to look it over.
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Re: Holley Dominator Questions

Postby CarMotorBarge » Mon Oct 23, 2017 9:16 pm

digginfool wrote:Two reasons why I need to use the Dominator. First and foremost, I have a 'drive by wire' throttle body. HP doesn't support. Second, the Dominator supports dual wide-bands. The HP does not. The Dominator will adjust so that both banks are firing within the AFR range set in the fuel map. CMB, as far as other 'engine systems' perhaps poor choice of words. Basically, what I was asking about is fuel pump control, gauges, etc. Are there tails off the harness for these items or do you have to create a harness for that purpose and run it to the pinouts? LBW, does that display work only in landscape or can you orient it for portrait? My dash isn't wide enough so I would have to mount it vertically if I bought it. Also, as One Eyed asked, what about water resistance?


I did some research and I think you are correct that the Dominator is required to support two O2 sensors and DBW. What is confusing is that the Holley HP software allows you to set two O2 sensors and select how the readings from both sensors are interpreted (average, left only, right only, leanest, richest). Also the HP software allows you to select DBW for the IAC type. Not sure why this functionality isn't disabled in the GUI. :scratch:

As for other engine systems, I left almost all of my original gauges and their sensors alone when I installed the Holley HP system. The only change was to run the blue wire from the Holley harness to my tach. Also I haven't ran the green wire to the fuel pump thru a relay yet.

To get the Holley system to work, I did have to buy a new water temperature sensor for the driver side head and had to replace my map sensor and IAT sensor. Also had to buy two knock sensors because I didn't have them.

On my next boat, I plan to use the Holley digitial display. I have seen it on several boats and it looks nice. Also you don't have to buy any of the traditional gauges.
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Re: Holley Dominator Questions

Postby digginfool » Mon Oct 23, 2017 9:30 pm

When you install the Holley software, you have to tell it you have the HP system and it hides all the functions that don't apply. I do appreciate the info you give. It's a risky decision. I now have a ton of money into this engine and know I'm getting a fraction of its potential. I hate having my hands tied with the MEFI setup.

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Re: Holley Dominator Questions

Postby CarMotorBarge » Tue Oct 24, 2017 6:40 am

I don't remember having to tell the software during install whether it was for the HP or Dominator. Will have to check into that. Maybe the latest software adds this?

No problems with helping out. So I don't regret going to the Holley system. Definitely glad that I did. However, I do recommend pulling your engine off the airboat and putting it on a dyno. I know this sounds like a lot of trouble, but it is the easiest and safest way to get the timing and AFR tables optimal so you get the maximum benefit of the Holley system. You will also know for sure how much more HSP and TORQUE you make then your 540 A/C. :stirpot: :stirpot: :stirpot: :stirpot:
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Re: Holley Dominator Questions

Postby One Eyed Gator » Tue Oct 24, 2017 6:59 am

Diggin can you use something like HP tuners to modify MEFI setup you have that software with credits is around 600.00?

CMB, we did not use the Fuel pump power supply (green wire) either. We tried it but it was making fuel pressure fluctuate, I believe ECU has to read fuel pressure for it to work properly.

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Re: Holley Dominator Questions

Postby digginfool » Tue Oct 24, 2017 8:01 am

There are a few suppliers of MEFI tuning but only up to MEFI-4. After that, the engine distributors started locking the tune. To my knowledge, there's only one person doing MEFI-6 tunes.

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Re: Holley Dominator Questions

Postby ladyblackwater » Tue Oct 24, 2017 1:08 pm

Screenshot_20170629-194142.png
I do us the green wire for the fuel pump and I use a fuel filter regulator. Mine holds 54 psi with no problems.
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Re: Holley Dominator Questions

Postby ladyblackwater » Tue Oct 24, 2017 1:13 pm

Swamphunter I'm not sure if they function with the Garmin yet but that would be a awesome thing if it did or does. I don't use a GPS much at all but it's always nice to have it if you need it. They are always coming out with new updates for the dash. I haven't updated mine since I've install it.
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Bitterly clinging to my guns and my religion!

I am that conservative republican your momma warned you about!


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