3A closed again

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Scotty1
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Re: 3A closed again

Postby Scotty1 » Tue Jul 10, 2018 12:52 pm

:rebel: lbw that is not a very good answer and to sum us all up as just air boaters well that's just horse shit. when I am in the woods if I see trash ill put it on my boat and haul it out, and the camp we keep nice and clean and haul all the trash out. I believe that high water stress deer out ,but drowning them is not the answer. When we go to camp its usually a family thing and we stay for several days at a time, we don't chase the deer we observe them when we do see one which is not often. I see on your profile it says that you are 32 if this is rite I've been in the woods longer than you are old and have kids older than that so I don't think there is any thing you can teach me . I am to old to learn. I respect my fellow air boaters until they give me reason not to. but I do not respect F.W.C., ACOE, NPS or any other organization that is messing with the everglades cause 9 times out of10 they will screw it up. :rebel:

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Re: 3A closed again

Postby Rich Andrews » Tue Jul 10, 2018 12:55 pm

they all but made it very hard if not possible for tracks to run S of the alley another win for them..40 mi bend fenced off
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Re: 3A closed again

Postby ladyblackwater » Tue Jul 10, 2018 2:21 pm

Scotty no that's my wife. I'll be 38 in 2 days. I'm a 5th Generation Gladesman. My family has been in the EVERGLADES for over a Century. I'm glad that you pick up trash because most don't, most of them are the ones that put the trash there. For the record I said MOST Airboaters not ALL. I say it just like I see it. This lifestyle has gone down the shitter and the reason is because for MOST it's a Hobby not a lifestyle. If it was a Lifestyle for them they would be getting involved to help solve the problem but instead they complain on the internet or just complain period. I've said it before and I say it as many times as I have to, If you don't get involved than you have no right to say anything or complain. People being keyboard ninjas don't get them anywhere or accomplish anything. Now I'm not saying that's what you are, I'm just stating how most are today. You do know that FWC'S first job is Wildlife correct? The wildlife comes way before anything else especially recreational use.
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Re: 3A closed again

Postby lilly-Pad » Tue Jul 10, 2018 2:55 pm

ok just got of the phone with FWC now, water is plenty low and going down. At this time it's primarily the deer count, latest count was 34. As we now know it needs to be 10 or less. On 7/15 less than a week from now they will open any gates that flow south that are not open now bc of the sea side sparrow.

as a side note the lady that picks up the phone at the Southern office was little argumentative and did not offer much information, but kill them with kindness. She passed me to some one who actually seemed to care be well informed. I personally feel that of all the evil's (NPS, ACOI,) FWC is the least of them. :fishing

I think most folks that airboat or use the woods period will pick up trash and do the right thing. There are always bad apples in every barrel. Some times it feels like the whole world has taken a turn towards the shitter but can't give up the fight. :old_glory:
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Re: 3A closed again

Postby Hambone79 » Tue Jul 10, 2018 3:39 pm

https://www.baynews9.com/fl/tampa/news/ ... gov--scott

so please educate me but this seems as this will raise water levels in the glades if water is pushed south. I read the article and I know it says rivers but wouldn't this also raise in the glades as well ?

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Re: 3A closed again

Postby Scotty1 » Tue Jul 10, 2018 4:18 pm

:rebel: LBW if FWC first job is the wild life why don't they work or force ACOE to control the water levels to keep it at a desired elevation. I swear the way you talk about the FWC a person would think you were on the job your self or maybe have a family member who is. And as far as the trash goes the most common thing we usually will find is balloons from the east coast. But I agree there are some bad apples out there air boating . but they are pretty easy to pick out just by their cocky attitude and mouth and lack of respect. :rebel: I DONT CALL AIR BOATING RECREATIONAL ITS MEDICATIONAL

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Re: 3A closed again

Postby Duece » Tue Jul 10, 2018 4:37 pm

Scotty1 wrote::rebel: LBW if FWC first job is the wild life why don't they work or force ACOE to control the water levels to keep it at a desired elevation. I swear the way you talk about the FWC a person would think you were on the job your self or maybe have a family member who is. And as far as the trash goes the most common thing we usually will find is balloons from the east coast. But I agree there are some bad apples out there air boating . but they are pretty easy to pick out just by their cocky attitude and mouth and lack of respect. :rebel: I DONT CALL AIR BOATING RECREATIONAL ITS MEDICATIONAL


I agree. FWC is just a cog in the anti-airboater wheel. Defending them is the same as defending ACOE, DEP or any of the other government acronyms. I'm telling you, government employees if they can find a way NOT to work, THEY WILL! Keeping it closed means it's less for them to do. Again, COMMON SENSE.

LBW you can pound your chest about 5th gen this and that, I am too, 5th gen Floridian and 3rd gen to be in the Glades. Been there all my life, lost 3 camps to government agencies "that had some other good in mind" so get off your soap box and quit preaching. I've been in the fight and quite frankly, I've seen the light. It's like plugging the hole in the Titanic w/chewing gum, or better yet being a 1 legged man in an a$$ kicking contest, it's pointless. I decided not all that long ago to quit wasting my time fighting and use it while we still got it, b/c 1 day, it won't be here for us to use no matter how hard we fight. You can take that to the bank...

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Re: 3A closed again

Postby Scotty1 » Tue Jul 10, 2018 5:19 pm

:rebel: LBW I bet if they shut down the areas where you could not run your air boat tours you would be preaching a different tune. :fishing :rebel:

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Re: 3A closed again

Postby keys2pines » Tue Jul 10, 2018 5:39 pm

Duece wrote:Scientific evidence presented by LBW = 0. Show me a study if it's so common sense. Did they not have high water or years of drought before man made the system he has now? What's common sense is it costs less money to monitor less people using an area. Argue that! You can't if you base it on common sense. Your short sighted-ness into who and what I am is why I constantly battle with you. You pigeon hole people into idealogical boxes like most liberals I know and berate them when they don't agree with you. I've never doubted that our problems stem from many factors, but what I've done is been lambasted by you for simply pointing out the fact that FWC did not have to close 3A when they did and they should have already opened the area back up if they were doing as Scotty said and following their guidelines of opening/closing based on water elevation. I don't think that airboats really stress deer that much. They hear them constantly and they constantly live in a state of fear. Unless you can find me a deer psychologist that says otherwise your common sense on deer stress can be found in a pile in a cow pasture. Airboats have 0 to do w/water quality, the Cape Sable Sea Side Sparrow, or the fact the ACOE won't send water south through ENP. Nope, not buying what you're shoveling. They want us out, as Rich has said, and they are using whatever tools they have at their disposal to get the job done. That's common sense I can believe in...

Duece

What about hoof rot due to high water? We've scared deer off camp before, I can only imagine that's one of the only places they have to stay dry. If everyone is riding around, the deer are going to stay off the islands, which means keeping their feet wet for prolonged periods of time.
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Re: 3A closed again

Postby Duece » Tue Jul 10, 2018 6:35 pm

keys2pines wrote:
Duece wrote:Scientific evidence presented by LBW = 0. Show me a study if it's so common sense. Did they not have high water or years of drought before man made the system he has now? What's common sense is it costs less money to monitor less people using an area. Argue that! You can't if you base it on common sense. Your short sighted-ness into who and what I am is why I constantly battle with you. You pigeon hole people into idealogical boxes like most liberals I know and berate them when they don't agree with you. I've never doubted that our problems stem from many factors, but what I've done is been lambasted by you for simply pointing out the fact that FWC did not have to close 3A when they did and they should have already opened the area back up if they were doing as Scotty said and following their guidelines of opening/closing based on water elevation. I don't think that airboats really stress deer that much. They hear them constantly and they constantly live in a state of fear. Unless you can find me a deer psychologist that says otherwise your common sense on deer stress can be found in a pile in a cow pasture. Airboats have 0 to do w/water quality, the Cape Sable Sea Side Sparrow, or the fact the ACOE won't send water south through ENP. Nope, not buying what you're shoveling. They want us out, as Rich has said, and they are using whatever tools they have at their disposal to get the job done. That's common sense I can believe in...

Duece

What about hoof rot due to high water? We've scared deer off camp before, I can only imagine that's one of the only places they have to stay dry. If everyone is riding around, the deer are going to stay off the islands, which means keeping their feet wet for prolonged periods of time.


While they may try to stay dry, there are plenty of places to do that, where we don't airboat. Most guys stay in the trails and occasionally venture out and about. Froggers will wind their way around, but again, those deer are used to hearing and seeing airboats. Now I know they aren't like pets, but I highly doubt you can prove to me they are more stressed than they already are to begin with. The damn things come out of the womb stressed as every minute of their waking day is spent surviving. I've ridden right by them squatted in the sawgrass thinking they were hidden and never had them run or bolt, so the argument that they'll leave the islands if we are riding around is highly argumentative. Again, point me to a study or some document stating that deer perceive higher stress levels when the water is high or due to the passing airboat and I'll shut up. Otherwise everything we are talking about is speculative and opinion, which is not much different than FWC putting a water elevation level as a deer stress indicator. The closure has 0 to do with deer, and everything to do with not wanting us in there PERIOD.

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Re: 3A closed again

Postby keys2pines » Tue Jul 10, 2018 6:57 pm

Duece wrote:While they may try to stay dry, there are plenty of places to do that, where we don't airboat. Most guys stay in the trails and occasionally venture out and about. Froggers will wind their way around, but again, those deer are used to hearing and seeing airboats. Now I know they aren't like pets, but I highly doubt you can prove to me they are more stressed than they already are to begin with. The damn things come out of the womb stressed as every minute of their waking day is spent surviving. I've ridden right by them squatted in the sawgrass thinking they were hidden and never had them run or bolt, so the argument that they'll leave the islands if we are riding around is highly argumentative. Again, point me to a study or some document stating that deer perceive higher stress levels when the water is high or due to the passing airboat and I'll shut up. Otherwise everything we are talking about is speculative and opinion, which is not much different than FWC putting a water elevation level as a deer stress indicator. The closure has 0 to do with deer, and everything to do with not wanting us in there PERIOD.

Duece

Looks like they are working on a study now, as there weren't any previous to this. http://myfwc.com/hunting/by-species/deer/project/
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Re: 3A closed again

Postby keys2pines » Tue Jul 10, 2018 8:29 pm

Duece wrote:The sooner you realize they don't want to open it, the clearer the picture becomes. I've said it once and I've said it a hundred times, they don't want to spend the money patrolling us or dealing with us. Easiest way to do this, close the areas we use. If you can prove me otherwise, I'll listen, but doubt I'll believe you.

Duece

I was going to make a point on this before. I have family that works in a different state, but one writes grants for the city, one is a building official, and one works for the police department (not an officer). They "have" to spend the money given to them by the state, or they end up getting less money when the time comes. It's in FWC's best interest to "have" to patrol us, they want that money. If they get 200k for "airboat patrol" that's 200k more in their budget. They may buy a new boat as mentioned before, or hire a couple more officers, but they benefit either way.
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Re: 3A closed again

Postby Seven3 » Tue Jul 10, 2018 9:24 pm

On a side note, somewhat related to this topic because of previously posted comments on this thread, it's a shame that people hold negative views of the FWC officer's that are out there. I have become friends with several of them in the Broward and Dade area. They are good people. Every now and then do you get the new guy fresh out of the academy that is making sure you have every piece of equipment?...sure. But for the most part, the officers that continue to run the glades are there because they love it too and want to preserve it.

I interned with them 11 years ago and I ended up taking a different career path, but I respect them highly to this day. I know of one officer in particular, I could count on him to come out to the glades and help me at 2am if need be, even if he isn't working. I've seen this guy go out repeatedly just to check on the camps out there for the owners. Guys like that should be commended, not condemned because they work for an agency that you sometimes disagree with.

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Re: 3A closed again

Postby Duece » Tue Jul 10, 2018 10:43 pm

I never condemned any officer in particular. As a matter of fact I have a nephew that's an officer. I'm not talking about the boots on the ground guys I'm talking about the policy makers.

As for them getting and using money let me give you an example. If nobody's out there to patrol and they patrol that's just an Airboat ride. If they patrol and it's full of people... That's work. You tell me which is easier.


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Re: 3A closed again

Postby Rich Andrews » Tue Jul 10, 2018 10:57 pm

has nothing to do w the guys working the weeds in the glades..nobody has a gripe with them. FWC is now a tree hugger group. GFC used to be a sportsmens group who had animals in their best interest not this new breed of FWC in Tallahassee
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Re: 3A closed again

Postby keys2pines » Wed Jul 11, 2018 7:40 am

Duece wrote:I never condemned any officer in particular. As a matter of fact I have a nephew that's an officer. I'm not talking about the boots on the ground guys I'm talking about the policy makers.

As for them getting and using money let me give you an example. If nobody's out there to patrol and they patrol that's just an Airboat ride. If they patrol and it's full of people... That's work. You tell me which is easier.


Duece

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Tickets are a source of income, no violators, no violations, less money. I don’t think the guys patrolling get to make the call on where they patrol. And I don’t think the people making that call care how much work the officers have to do. I just got checked at the boat ramp two weeks ago in ft Lauderdale after fishing with the kids. Two officers checking every boat that docked at a busy ramp, that’s a lot of work.
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Re: 3A closed again

Postby Duece » Wed Jul 11, 2018 8:52 pm

Not buying it. Seen it too much in BICY, government employees are going to get away w/doing as little as possible and get paid PERIOD. Also, if the powers that be get their feelings hurt b/c their budget gets cut, then they also do things like this to "justify" the money they used to get. It's all a game they play, and like Rich said the new breed could care less about the sportsman...

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Re: 3A closed again

Postby glades cat » Thu Jul 12, 2018 9:44 am

Got a report yesterday. New FWC officers getting trained at the 40 mile ramp. I'm sure they're looking for opportunities to "teach" them how to write up tickets and do checks.
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Re: 3A closed again

Postby Gary S » Fri Jul 13, 2018 7:33 am

They have to open the glades before they have anyone to check.

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Re: 3A closed again

Postby rudee116 » Sun Jul 15, 2018 10:09 pm

So what the hell is going on? Why is it still closed? It's been hiding steady below regulation for a while now. What's the excuse now!?!?
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Re: 3A closed again

Postby lilly-Pad » Sun Jul 15, 2018 11:47 pm

when I called last week they where going by the # of deer on the levy . At that time the count was 34 needs to be below 10. Today they where supposed to open the gates they have been keeping closed bc of the sparrow, so in theory it should start to drop even further now. can't be long until they open if the water stays where it is or drops? It took a couple of calls to find someone who was helpful. His contact was James Urskin (not sure of spelling of last name) 561-882-5704
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Re: 3A closed again

Postby rudee116 » Mon Jul 16, 2018 12:26 pm

:roll: Lol...I call bullshit. 34 deer :roll:
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Re: 3A closed again

Postby keys2pines » Mon Jul 16, 2018 6:46 pm

rudee116 wrote::roll: Lol...I call bullshit. 34 deer :roll:

My friend went scouting last weekend and said he saw 20-30 standing together off the levee by holey land.
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