ECOTEC 2.0 LTG SWAP

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FISHSTICKER
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Re: ECOTEC 2.0 LTG SWAP

Post by FISHSTICKER »

Finished the tablet mount, set the rivnuts, notched the trim ring to get to all the screen buttons and made a cover. Came out pretty good
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FISHSTICKER
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Re: ECOTEC 2.0 LTG SWAP

Post by FISHSTICKER »

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FISHSTICKER
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Re: ECOTEC 2.0 LTG SWAP

Post by FISHSTICKER »

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FISHSTICKER
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Re: ECOTEC 2.0 LTG SWAP

Post by FISHSTICKER »

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FISHSTICKER
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Re: ECOTEC 2.0 LTG SWAP

Post by FISHSTICKER »

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GB III
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Re: ECOTEC 2.0 LTG SWAP

Post by GB III »

Fishsticker,

I have really enjoyed reading along on your build posts, one question what is the Ram Mount used for holding in the pics?
Poor Boys 15x8 Levitator 6.2 DI SC 4 Blade Sensenich 2.55 Ox Box
FISHSTICKER
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Re: ECOTEC 2.0 LTG SWAP

Post by FISHSTICKER »

GB that was where the tablet was mounted. Now I'm going to use it to hold my $1000 company owned Iphone and god willing it will get knocked in the water every time I pass by a cypress tree :D. Just kidding on the knocked in the water part, but I will use it to hold the phone when running the river so I can change songs in my headset mo easy.
GB III
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Re: ECOTEC 2.0 LTG SWAP

Post by GB III »

10/4 FISHSTICKER, Keep the pics coming.
Poor Boys 15x8 Levitator 6.2 DI SC 4 Blade Sensenich 2.55 Ox Box
FISHSTICKER
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Re: ECOTEC 2.0 LTG SWAP

Post by FISHSTICKER »

When I installed my motor I removed the AC compressor because I made the decision air conditioning was more trouble than it is worth. By doing that the factory GM belt tensioner would not work without significant modifications. I made the decision to use the alternator as a tensioner by jacking it away from the block with some double nuts. This also required finding the right size 5 groove belt.....which is pictured somewhere back in this thread. Even with lock tight it has been a strugle to keep it from getting loose. There is not enough room to create enough slack in the pullys with 4 nuts on the bolt between the alternator and the block, if there was I believe jaming both nuts would do it.

So, I tried a few simple ways of taking up the space between the two nuts and not allowing them to move closer together. The space on the bottome bolt was perfect width to just fit a pipe clamp that I had around the bolt. I beleive that one is good. The top two were too wide. On the back bolt I cut a few short pieces of tig rod to wedge between the nuts and put a few tie wraps around them to hold them while I placed the pipe clamp. I did the top front one last and used what i believe is the best plan for this coonass engineered solution. I split a pice of small stainless tubing that was cut the correct length and put it over the space between the nuts and secured it with a band clamp. I'll probably do the same on the top back until I fab up a AC delete pully, hell Dorman might make one by now I'll have to look again.

I never found a pic of how anyone else got around the issue with the LTG.
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JLP3314
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Re: ECOTEC 2.0 LTG SWAP

Post by JLP3314 »

Maybe I'm missing something here but isn't there any way you can just cut a piece of heavy wall tubing, (like schedule 40 that has a thick wall or even 1/4" galvanized pipe) now that you have the measurement you need?
Or is it too have to get that bolt back out to slide a piece of tubing in there?
Don't waste your time-its the only thing you can't get back, (Cntry141IQ/John had another thousand of these before he went sliding into the sky). :-(
CWAIS
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Re: ECOTEC 2.0 LTG SWAP

Post by CWAIS »

Eddie
You might have to put a patent on that baby!!!!
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Slidin Gator
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Re: ECOTEC 2.0 LTG SWAP

Post by Slidin Gator »

FISHSTICKER wrote:
Mon May 31, 2021 8:31 am
So, I tried a few simple ways of taking up the space between the two nuts and not allowing them to move closer together. The space on the bottome bolt was perfect width to just fit a pipe clamp that I had around the bolt. I beleive that one is good. The top two were too wide. On the back bolt I cut a few short pieces of tig rod to wedge between the nuts and put a few tie wraps around them to hold them while I placed the pipe clamp. I did the top front one last and used what i believe is the best plan for this coonass engineered solution. I split a pice of small stainless tubing that was cut the correct length and put it over the space between the nuts and secured it with a band clamp. I'll probably do the same on the top back until I fab up a AC delete pully, hell Dorman might make one by now I'll have to look again.
That's a lota letters just to say you rigged it :lol: :lol: :lol:

I deal with it on my 4.3 buggy motors. Dorman makes an AC Delete pulley for the early 90's, non vortec, but not for the late 90's+ Vortec setup. The difference is the orientation of one of the bolts. I modified a Dorman with the spool gun for the Vortec. You seem to be pretty handy with the tig these days, shouldn't be much to turn a Dorman into a Custom :dontknow:

Just gotta jig it up right and weld slow, 12 pack outa do it :thumbleft:
I still think I-10 is the Mason Dixon line.
2013 Mike Stossel Boats, 13' x 7' deck over, IO-540, 74" NGQ less winglets.
smalltownboy_08
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Re: ECOTEC 2.0 LTG SWAP

Post by smalltownboy_08 »

I copied your setup but am fairly certain was able to double nut the inside (i hope that is enough). If I run into this problem I would spot weld the two nuts together and grind it off when the belt needs servicing. My other thought would be drill safety wire holes in the nuts and tie them together or there are Nordlock washers (i have not personally used) but might be worth a try. Good luck, glad to keep seeing updates.
FISHSTICKER
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Re: ECOTEC 2.0 LTG SWAP

Post by FISHSTICKER »

JLP, you can't put the piece of tube in until you make the room by tightening up the belt.....which happens when you create the space between the nuts.

CWAIS, I already turned you in to the FBI for patent infringement :D . Call me when you get some time I have some info you will be interested in.

Gator, thats what I will probably do. Find one that is at least the correct orientation with the right pully and modify it.

Smalltown, I thought about just getting a bit longer belt to make enough room so that I could get two more nuts in the space but I beleive i would be very close if not rubbing on my belt guard.....and I didn't want to get into modifying that. I figured if I was going to modify the belt guard then I'm going to just make a AC delete pully. The tie wire is a good solution but you only have an 8 mm bolt that we would be drilling thru. Did you get your project running yet?
smalltownboy_08
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Re: ECOTEC 2.0 LTG SWAP

Post by smalltownboy_08 »

Just got it started for the first time tonight. I do not have it double nutted like I thought. Mine are super close together, like hammer in a cut open washer. That will probably be my solution for now.
smalltownboy_08
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Re: ECOTEC 2.0 LTG SWAP

Post by smalltownboy_08 »

Just got it started for the first time tonight. I do not have it double nutted like I thought. Mine are super close together, like hammer in a cut open washer. That will probably be my solution for now.
FISHSTICKER
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Re: ECOTEC 2.0 LTG SWAP

Post by FISHSTICKER »

Went catch a few frogs Thursday and Friday night. Found a few more weak links. The push on electrical connectors for the carter fuel pump are shit. The wire they supply and my extra tie wraps all vibrated off Friday night. The carter lifts the fuel out of my tank and feeds my 80 psi pump. I'm going to take a 12-24 die nut and thread those studs and use ring terminals. That should solve that.

I had used standard stainless cap screws to hold my front motor mounts to the aluminum block. The bottom bolt on the starboard side lost its head Friday night. During the night I saw a stainless washer in the bottom of the boat among all the mud and grass and wondered where that came from. Yesterday at the landing I found the cap screw head right by the drain plug....then I saw where it came from. I guess I'll change them all out with some good grade 8 fastners. It's a 10 mm fastner....I thought 3 of them would have been plenty. I didn't think I could have over tightening it without striping threads in the aluminum block. Maybe the communist republic of China sent me a defective screw.
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FISHSTICKER
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Re: ECOTEC 2.0 LTG SWAP

Post by FISHSTICKER »

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FISHSTICKER
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Re: ECOTEC 2.0 LTG SWAP

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Re: ECOTEC 2.0 LTG SWAP

Post by Slidin Gator »

FISHSTICKER wrote:
Sun Jun 06, 2021 10:57 am
I guess I'll change them all out with some good grade 8 fastners. It's a 10 mm fastner....I thought 3 of them would have been plenty. I didn't think I could have over tightening it without striping threads in the aluminum block.
That my friend is a classic fatigue failure, RAAJ is an Indian (not China) fastener manufacturer and A2-70 is a high strength, heat treated SST fastener that is only slightly lower in strength than a Grade 8 bolt (and 2+ times stronger than a standard SST screw).

The link below provides good coverage of failure modes, but what I see is a bolt that is much stronger than what it is bolting together (the aluminum female thread and the low strength, carbon steel mount plate). Over time there was some plastic deformation in the female thread and possibly the steel mount (I see some damage below the hole on the mount plate) and the bolt became loose. Not because it became unthreaded, but because the parts it clamped together gave up a bit (plastic deformation).

https://www.fastenal.com/en/3289/fastener-fatigue

Just a point of reference, there is no such thing as a Grade 8 metric fastener. Metric grade 10.9 is the SAE Grade 8 equivalent, metric 8.8 is equivalent to SAE grade 5. Further, those designations only apply to hex head bolts/screws. Socket head screws are available in regular, low strength SST, higher strength, heat treated 316 SST (what you have) or alloy steel. The Alloy steel used for socket head screws is actually stronger than grade 8 or 10.9, it is the equivalent of a metric 12.9. Just remember, I didn't make the rules, hate the game, not the playa.

If you were to just switch to an alloy steel screw you would find the same failure to occur, most likely much quicker as the female threads have deformed and the higher the material strength alloy is a more brittle material.

I highly recommend that you upgrade the engine threads to Helicoil using the longest Helicoil that will fit the thread boss. The thread boss should accept the 3x diameter long helicoils (~30 mm, 1-1/8" long) which would make the threads in your block close to equivalent in strength to high strength alloy steel, allowing you to torque them well (at least 45 ft-lbs) to provide sufficient preload.

I would also add a "High Collar" spring lock washer between the socket head and your flat washer and make sure to use thick (structural) flat washers. The high collar lock washer fits the head of the cap screw and is thicker than a regular lock washer. It should go without saying, but use blue loctite to boot.

As a further side note, 10 mm is very close to 3/8, the 10 mm screws measure about 0.015" larger diameter vs. 3/8 and metric 10x1.5 equates to an SAE thread pitch of 16.9 threads per inch vs. the SAE 16. You can actually screw a 3/8-16 screw into a M10x1.5 threaded hole quite a good ways, just not the other way around.

Also note that you have the option of drilling and tapping the thread for either M10 or 3/8 Helicoils as they are so close in size. This is a perfect example of what a waste of time, energy and resources it is to maintain 2 different standards of measurement. While hard to admit, switching to the Metric system would improve US productivity. As it is, the hardware store has to maintain inventory of 2 different fasteners that do the same thing, your tool box has 2 different sets of wrenches and sockets, etc. etc. But that is a whole different soap box. :banghead:
I still think I-10 is the Mason Dixon line.
2013 Mike Stossel Boats, 13' x 7' deck over, IO-540, 74" NGQ less winglets.
FISHSTICKER
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Re: ECOTEC 2.0 LTG SWAP

Post by FISHSTICKER »

Well Gator, there was about a .1" gap behind the motor mount at the bottom bolt where the failure occured. I can only assume that in my effort to not strip out the threads in the aluminum block I must have not tightened it enough to completely close that gap which would have allowed for movement and probably caused or at least contributed to the failure. I added a washer to fill that space so there are no gaps this time around. I didn't have any quality lock washers so I did not put them on. I will order some and add those when they come in.

I'm also going to decide on a size and order some helicoils. The aluminum boss will allow for an increase in size.
hdsadey
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Re: ECOTEC 2.0 LTG SWAP

Post by hdsadey »

IMHO Heli-coils are absolute junk in applications where high strength is needed! That thin wire is more suited for low strength repairs. At the machine shop we pull out Heli-coils and install Time-serts. Time-serts are a solid theaded insert that when installed are permanent with a usable inner thread that won't move or gall the bolt going in. The kit comes with the drill bit, countersink mandrel, tap and install mandrel. When the install mandrel is fully engaged to the bottom of the insert the insert flairs out locking in securely and permanently in the repair. They come in all sorts of thread sizes (sae & metric) as well as thin wall or standard wall varieties. They are absolutely the best and easiest choice, I challenge anyone to prove me differently!!!!
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UnoWho
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Re: ECOTEC 2.0 LTG SWAP

Post by UnoWho »

FISHSTICKER
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Re: ECOTEC 2.0 LTG SWAP

Post by FISHSTICKER »

I did not know about those. I’ll look at them before I make a decision. Thanks for the link Uno!
FISHSTICKER
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Re: ECOTEC 2.0 LTG SWAP

Post by FISHSTICKER »

I THINK THEYS FROGS IN THEM THERE GRASSES
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