Building a Georgian Bay Scoot

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Jon Heron
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Building a Georgian Bay Scoot

Post by Jon Heron »

Complete newb to airboats/scoot's here.
I am getting a fibreglass scoot hull made and have a line on a Continental 65 to power it.
The Continental is going to be refurbished and painted, the guy is asking $6000.00 CAD for it, does that seam reasonable? It apparently does not have an alternator but does have a starter added.
What are the best kind of controls for it?
Any advice on the angle and height of the motor mount in relation to the hull?
Any and all advice here would be appreciated.
Note these are for use on ice and water and are not like your typical southern airboat AFAIK.
Like one of these:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8y1D4l5RAMk
https://youtu.be/LZtlApe3xn4
:canada:
Cheers,
Jon
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Slidin Gator
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Re: Building a Georgian Bay Scoot

Post by Slidin Gator »

Jon,

Welcome to Southern Airboat and the Airboat/Scoot addiction :cheers:

That said, be ready for some ribbing :thumbleft:

$6K CAD is $5K USD which is a very reasonable price for a more modern engine. You are considering putting a 4 cylinder, O-170, 65 Hp engine originally built close 75-100 years ago on your new Scoot? Is there a particular reason antiques appeal here or is this just the power the rest of the crowd runs in your parts? I would question how "new" or "good" the new parts are on the rebuild.

Otherwise, why go fiberglass? Might as well go all in on the fir strip stringers, polar bear hide and rendered whale blubber sealant.

Best part to me is the combination of folks on ice skates and unshrouded running props, what could go wrong :scratch:

I still think I-10 is the Mason Dixon line.
2013 Mike Stossel Boats, 13' x 7' deck over, IO-540, 74" NGQ less winglets.
Jon Heron
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Re: Building a Georgian Bay Scoot

Post by Jon Heron »

Hi Slidin,
The name of the game here for me is light weight so it can be moved around, manhandled and freed from the ice with ease. I have enough conventional boats for when the weather is nice, this thing is utilitarian for commuting during the ice season to my property on Gloucester Pool and maybe some ice fishing with my son. :canada:
These 65HP continentals weigh about 170lbs, is there anything modern or otherwise that compares to this? They also seem very simple and easy to maintain. I have rebuilt my share of engines.
As for the fibreglass, that seems to be what they are all made of around here? They do have fur stringers too :D
I had a ride in this one last week, it was around 30-40 years old and other than needing a good polish it was in great shape. Based on that I figure they hold up, if looked after. Image
Cheers,
Jon
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Re: Building a Georgian Bay Scoot

Post by Gary S »

Gator I questioned the open cage on a previous post and was informed it was due to ice build up. That seemed like a reasonable response.
Jon parts for the 65 are going to be hard to find and your going to have minimal power. The 0-200 is 90 HP and a lot more modern and pretty close to the same HP. There is a PE-90 that is a ground power engine with down draft carburetor that is pretty much the same as the 0-200 in weight and H.P. I don't know how big this boat is going to be but I have to agree with Gator that for the money your going to spend a Lycoming 0-320 is going to be more satisfying and a Lycoming is easier and cheaper to work on than a Continental. I have both so it's not that I'm trying to run down Continental.
Jon Heron
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Re: Building a Georgian Bay Scoot

Post by Jon Heron »

Gary S wrote:
Tue Nov 16, 2021 6:57 am
Gator I questioned the open cage on a previous post and was informed it was due to ice build up. That seemed like a reasonable response.
Jon parts for the 65 are going to be hard to find and your going to have minimal power. The 0-200 is 90 HP and a lot more modern and pretty close to the same HP. There is a PE-90 that is a ground power engine with down draft carburetor that is pretty much the same as the 0-200 in weight and H.P. I don't know how big this boat is going to be but I have to agree with Gator that for the money your going to spend a Lycoming 0-320 is going to be more satisfying and a Lycoming is easier and cheaper to work on than a Continental. I have both so it's not that I'm trying to run down Continental.
Hi Gary,
Thanks for the insight on the engines! I am going to look into these that you mentioned.
The advice I got was that the 65HP was more than enough for these smaller scoots. The hull with seats, windows and rudder only weighs about 550# sans engine. I have seen a couple using a Rotax 582 which is certainly more modern but not sure on the reliability or price yet as I am just starting my research now.
Cheers,
Jon
Jon Heron
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Re: Building a Georgian Bay Scoot

Post by Jon Heron »

I took some pictures of one in the hull builders yard last week to get some ideas for the mounts and cage, this appears to be a Rotax, or some kind of 2 smoker judging by the exhaust pipe?
Image
Image
Image
Cheers,
Jon
Jon Heron
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Re: Building a Georgian Bay Scoot

Post by Jon Heron »

Lol I see Rotax on the transfer cover... Confirmed Rotax! :violent1:
Jon
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Slidin Gator
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Re: Building a Georgian Bay Scoot

Post by Slidin Gator »

The Lycoming 320 will make 150 Hp and weigh about 240 lbs. Understood on weight vs. power, which is where the Rotax really shines. Snowmobile or motorcycle engines with gearing are good options to consider too. A lot depends on availability of parts and fuel in your area.
I still think I-10 is the Mason Dixon line.
2013 Mike Stossel Boats, 13' x 7' deck over, IO-540, 74" NGQ less winglets.
Jon Heron
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Re: Building a Georgian Bay Scoot

Post by Jon Heron »

Thanks Slidin,
I just started looking into these Rotax 582's and yeah, they look like a great option, even less moving parts as they are a smoker and all parts are still in production...
The liquid cooled bit gives me an option for some heat on my old feet that freeze at the site of snow anymore too as well as a charging cct.
Hmmm... :idea:
Cheers,
Jon
Jon Heron
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Re: Building a Georgian Bay Scoot

Post by Jon Heron »

There is a guy selling 2 582's not far from me. Problem is he is just the executor of a will and does not know anything about them.
One is claimed to be "new in the box" for $6999.00 Canuck bucks and the other is "used" for $3999.00 CAD.
I asked how he set the price point and he wouldnt answer and just said to come and look at them.
I am thinking bring a battery with booster cables and my compression tester, any other advice?
Here the pics, no idea what is what yet...
Image
Image
Cheers,
Jon
Jon Heron
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Re: Building a Georgian Bay Scoot

Post by Jon Heron »

A guy gave me an analogy comparing the 2 cylinder Rotax to the 4 banger continental, "like comparing a 65HP tractor to a 65HP scooter" :thumbleft:
I suspect the torque of the larger engine despite HP would translate to better thrust for climbing banks, getting on plane etc, eh?
Still trying to make up my mind what to power this with.... :toothy7:
Cheers,
Jon
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OneBFC
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Re: Building a Georgian Bay Scoot

Post by OneBFC »

I suspect the torque of the larger engine despite HP would translate to better thrust for climbing banks, getting on plane etc, eh?
No. Flat wrong. HP is what you need to perform work (move the boat / produce thrust).

Equal power between two engines, however, will come down to what their power curves look like over a given RPM range. The engine with more power than the prop needs at a given RPM will result in more "snap" of the prop rpm when the throttle is opened.

Both engines will make the same peak thrust for climbing over stuff..

The engine with more power at lower rpm will have more torque at the engine crank. Which ends up irrelevant really..

Its quite possible a lower torque motor with proper gear reduction will have MORE torque at the prop shaft then the higher torque, no gear reduction engine..

Power, its all that matters.. well, weight too of course. Modern engines vastly outperform in the power to weight area but come with water cooling requirements and more complexity... the engine i use makes easily 400 to 450 hp and weighs 320lbs from GM. The smaller 1.4L version weighs only 230lbs and makes 250 in its sleep.

I suspect an AC engine is the better choice for your use case based on what I have seen in your posts so far as long as you can get parts in your area.

Good luck with your build.
-Russ
-----------------------------------
The only thing stopping you is FEAR
400+hp Ecotec, 12x7.6 DBDO, 80" 3B Maximus, 2.3 OX,85+mph, water = purely optional
Life begins at 2 BAR, Just a good ole boy
Jon Heron
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Re: Building a Georgian Bay Scoot

Post by Jon Heron »

Hi Russ, Thanks for the detailed reply!
I am not sure if that makes my decision easier or not... Ha!
Now I am looking at an 85 continental, apparently it has the same jugs as the 90 and 100 and parts are easier to come by as well as having an alternator.
This may be the winner.
Cheers,
Jon
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Slidin Gator
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Re: Building a Georgian Bay Scoot

Post by Slidin Gator »

Jon,

To be clear, I would never consider putting that Rotax on any Scoot I ever build, they are wimpy 2 stroke engines with no torque curve and balls like a Alligator (try finding them, they are small).

But, given the spec of 65 Hpish I'm all about needing to manhandle it, light weight is the key driver and the Rotax wins. But, after a while, getting out to push get's old and it's time for more power, lot's of it.

I think I can put my hands on a pair of Lycoming O-145's (75 Hp at 165 lbs, built in 1940ish) if interested, the museums got enough I think. But for me I'd go Rotax and real light or make the jump to a 150 Hp aviation/car motor setup and a suitable hull.

What are the dimensions of the hull you are considering?
I still think I-10 is the Mason Dixon line.
2013 Mike Stossel Boats, 13' x 7' deck over, IO-540, 74" NGQ less winglets.
Jon Heron
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Re: Building a Georgian Bay Scoot

Post by Jon Heron »

Thanks Slidin, I am going to look at a C85 tomorrow :)
The hull is only 11x5 and about 550# sans engine.
The guy has some used props but I am thinking I will go new, I am hearing sensenich is the way to go, what do you boys think?
Cheers,
Jon
Jon Heron
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Re: Building a Georgian Bay Scoot

Post by Jon Heron »

Gary S
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Re: Building a Georgian Bay Scoot

Post by Gary S »

I think I would go more modern. Talk to Patty at whirlwind. You talk about saving weight and then want to hang a cross tie on your engine.
Jon Heron
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Re: Building a Georgian Bay Scoot

Post by Jon Heron »

The wooden props were recommended by a couple of people on the scoot for durability from ice chunks.
The adjustable pitch sure seems like it would be nice though.
It would be nice to see a comparison stress test between the wood and composite props to see what the difference in durability really is.
Cheers,
Jon
Jon Heron
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Re: Building a Georgian Bay Scoot

Post by Jon Heron »

Power plant acquired!
Got a nice clean Continental C85 with a prop (will be a spare once I get everything sorted out) and even some mufflers.
Cheers,
Jon
Jon Heron
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Re: Building a Georgian Bay Scoot

Post by Jon Heron »

Image
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Gary S
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Re: Building a Georgian Bay Scoot

Post by Gary S »

If you want tough go with warp drive.
That old Continental brings back memories from long ago.
Jon Heron
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Re: Building a Georgian Bay Scoot

Post by Jon Heron »

Gary S wrote:
Mon Nov 22, 2021 6:44 am
If you want tough go with warp drive.
Are they known for being tough?
They sure are spendy!
Cheers.
Jon
Scootgeneral
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Re: Building a Georgian Bay Scoot

Post by Scootgeneral »

Hey Jon I have a scoot to there cool boats
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Jon Heron
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Re: Building a Georgian Bay Scoot

Post by Jon Heron »

Cool Scoot!
What have you got pushing that thing? Are you a canuck?
Cheers,
Jon
Jon Heron
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Re: Building a Georgian Bay Scoot

Post by Jon Heron »

Scootgeneral wrote:
Tue Nov 30, 2021 12:48 am
Hey Jon I have a scoot to there cool boats
Is that HDPE or something you have riveted to the bottom of the hull?
Cheers,
Jon
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